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The Ning situation

This is a post about Ning, who have announced their plans for moving to a solely paid model. There is also a forum topic on it in the new forums. This post offers some alternatives, our perspective on it, and a recommendation or two. You can read the whole thing from top to bottom or click on the these links to go direct to the relevant bits:

(20/12/10 NOTE: Sorry but I've had to close this blog post to comments as it's being repeatedly spammed by nonsense merchants. Email Ed to get in touch)

Introduction

Ning is a wonderful thing and we have always thought that for the right purpose and group, it's an valuable social networking tool for initiatives, regional groups and more. As well as that, they have ploughed a huge amount of money into it (approx $12 Million we heard), so it is unsurprisingly really handy and easy to use (the build of our website cost £14,000, which does not include the ongoing costs of planning, consultation, support, maintenance etc.).

We estimate that there are approximately 30-50 Transition Initiatives using Ning for their website, one national hub, a few regional entities and some special interest groups. So this is primarily for them, but it's also a post to in the wider issue of how we associate ourselves (Transition Network) with the social networking services out there on the web.

The facts about the Ning situation:

Someone has to pay for things at some point, so it wasn't a massive surprise when Ning announced their change in tack from 'freemium' to 'to pay for'. Since then, rumours, myths and suspicions abounded around the web which they answered politely.

The critical dates:

We will stop offering free Ning Networks when we launch the three new paid plans in July 2010. When we launch the plans, Network Creators will be given 30 days to transition to one of the three paid plans.

Read their FAQ here

The critical pricing plans: range from $20 per year for a very slim version (the Ning Mini) to the full fat version at $500 per year (the Ning Pro).

Read their pricing plans here

So what do we think?

We're seeing initiatives using myriad different tools with success; it's entirely up to you, and what you need/want, what technical expertise you have, how important their website is to you.

We can't say what will and what won't work for you. But we can provide a space in which to discuss it, so we have set up a web/comms forum and will keep an eye on it.

We also thought - come on us, what *do* we reckon - let's put our cards on the table. So we had a good think and thought to ourselves 'who of all the free social network providers listed below, do we think are the closest to us in culture, style, outlook, connectedness, and dress sense?' of the free social network providers above. Ie when it came to it, who would we suggest?

Wooo - the clock's ticking - woo - decision time -

We'd have to go with Wiser Earth. It's a big, ambitious project, rooted in Paul Hawken's Blessed Unrest movement, offering all sorts of organisations free interconnected spaces to live on the web. It isn't owned by a commercial entity, runs on open source software, is managed by volunteers, and aims to keep the costs as low as possible rather than 'commercialise the community' (which any private company has to do). Really quite like us.

There's a bit more fiddling with the tools than Ning (it cost a lot less than Ning), so it's not as super-easy to use, but it works, does lots of things to afford good networking, and it's rooted in the principle of interconnectedness. We are also big fans of Peggy, Angus and Bowo some of the crew behind Wiser Earth, who are transparent, helpful and on a good wavelength.

For example, they just launched a new beta version of the site in French, Portugese and Spanish - the work was done by 43 volunteer translators over 10 months. And they are just about to implement a single-sign-on for Facebook, Twitter and Google users which will make everyone's lives easier should they switch to Wiser Earth.

So we asked Bowo a few questions that we thought were relevant to any recommendation we might make which he responded to below. First though - ask yourself - what is the value of what you have, and why would you move? 

The value of (any) service:

We keenly recommend that you assess the value of a service like Ning in a pragmatic manner, without an instant assumption that it should be free and storming off because they are charging. Not that you would, but just in case.

You can ask yourself these questions about any service you are using:

  • What are you doing on your ning site? (blogs, photos, videos, friends, events, sub-groups etc.)
  • Does it do what you need?
  • Is it easy to use?
  • Is it reliable?
  • Has it ever broken?
  • Have you lost anything?
  • Do you feel your data is safe, and can you get at it if you want to?
  • How are your users using your ning site? (social networking, commenting, just reading?)

And then ask yourself:

  • How much is all that worth?

Many people feel that the web and all the services it supports, should be 'free'. A big part of me thinks that this would be nice, and I've worked with free applications for a long time (and still do - for a local Bristol project I keenly recommend the use of 'google apps for your domain').

But these things aren't really 'free' - that's what the marketing monkey says in your ear to allure you to use the service. There is always a business plan in the background, whether it is selling adverts, harvesting social network data and selling it to advertisers, encouraging adoption of enhanced services (freemium), or going for the traditional software route of innovating a new service, proving it, then selling it to a big company. Leaving aside the membership and subscription routes, of course.

The big media houses have been wrestling with this gigantic elephant in the publishing room for years now - this year Rupert Murdoch is putting up paywalls around all his content (should you be tempted to go there), and it's likely that the others will follow (The Guardian's long standing champion of 'free content' is off to do some studying), so...

When you think about it, of course it's not free.

We, and others who are keen advocates of 'Open Source' software are fully aware that Open Source does not mean free - it means shared, nurtured and much better than 'Proprietorial' as no-one actually owns it. But you still need developers, web hosts, issue trackers, mailing lists, updates, maintenance etc. etc. And it's scarey how much the costs add up.

We have a service to provide very basic 'community microsites' to initiatives who really need them, but these aren't 'free'. They are supported by our funder Tudor Trust (thanks!), need continuous technical support, require 'customer support' and 'training', and in fact, open a significant risk for us of introducing support requirements that we cannot support - so we are very very careful about this. There are scarey stories from the past of organisations trying to offer sophisticated hosted websites for their 'members' and it getting very out of control and ending in tears which we keep close to our heart.

Some alternatives to Ning that are free:

Hosted (ie they do all the work):

Need to host and configure yourself: more software that supports websites and networking:

 

Wiser Earth's answers to our questions:

a. how could WE help initiatives onto the WE platform?

  • We can write up a tutorial on transitioning from Ning to WE and provide ongoing support. It may be best to work on this tutorial together with TN folks, so we understand what your needs are.

b. is there any helpful documentation about using the WE platform?

c. how could initiatives migrate off WE platform if they wanted to move on for any reason?

  • There should be ways to migrate data out via the API (don't think this has been done before though...so will need to explore further)

d. WE's economic sustainability response

  • We have very low funding requirements and are looking to raise a small endowment to fund our bare minimum tech/hosting costs forever. And we plan on putting our code in escrow somewhere in the case that we ever ‘went out of business’ – like Salesforce has done.

e. We're keen to have up to date information about the TN initiatives correctly presented on partner sites (most of which show out of date or incomplete listings which is misleading for the users). How could we work as organisations together to integrate TN's initiative directory with WE's API so that you can re-present the correct data? 

  • Good point. Yes it's possible. We'd be happy to work together on the technical end to make this happen. That would be a win-win situation. Less data maintenance work on our end, more visibility for Transition Initiatives.

f. Can the WE groups generate RSS news feeds that we can aggregate and re-publish for our sharing engine?

  • It is now possible to have RSS out from groups... with a caveat. It must be done via the search engine, i.e. so long as you 'tag' new content (or re-tag old content) with certain keywords, such as #transitionlewes, the search results from that keyword can be turned into RSS (and Email alert soon). More information here

 

So there you have it - it's up to you - we're all ears and happy to help - and very interested in how this all pans out.

Change is the only constant, so work out what luggage you need, and get with the movement! 

A quick note on the Transition Network web project offer

The web project's strategic priorities on our site are to manage the information about the initiatives, projects and people that make up our amazing movement. Our most important task is to ensure that there is one place where you can find out what you need to know and be in touch with the right person as quickly as possible to help you in Transition. And then converse directly with them.

The web project is not a social network - think of it more as a 'knowledge network'. We're more into stewarding knowledge and fostering direct conversations than encouraging people to spend time on our website. We do have a presence in the social networks (Facebook, Ning, Linkedin, Wiser Earth, Twitter, Drupal Groups, School of Everything, and more). So we seek to partner with social network providers rather than be one.

Ben has a note on his wall that says

The Transition Network web project - driving traffic off the website and into the communities

Good work Mr B! We want the social networking to take place in your neighbourhoods, not online, where it burns carbon like crazy and doesn't (in our opinion, yet, but we're working on it) afford the absolutely and utterly vital 'heart and soul' work that really holds our communities together.

We offer:

You can read more about the Community Microsites, but trust us, they are not social networks and they did not have $12 million invested in them

Some other links

 

About the author
User picture

Ed is the 'Web: projects and strategy' person for Transition Network. This means that he works on strategic and special projects work for Transition Network about linking up all the Transition Initiative websites without them having to come to the main site all the time for updates and news. He lives in Bristol, likes digging and climbing, growing vegetables and reading, bicycles and books, swimming, camping and generally being outdoors.

Comments

Anonymous's picture

I agree with Ed.

An excellent and clear summary. Thanks Ed.

I have also had very good experiences with Wiser Earth and the people behind it, and recommend it to people wanting to leave Ning.

Gary

Anonymous's picture

Hello all civi crm and crabgrass are also alternatives

I appreciate the good thinking that is happening here, I don;t have time to respond much yet, but I wanted to add a few things to the mix"
a project closely related to drupal, called civicrm has a lot more functionality built in to it, that could be a better base for transition type projects.  It is aimed at community based groups and has even another related project called powerbase contributing modules to civicrm.  These additions to drupal, are more freindly for community based groups to use.  I would urge the transition drupal developers to build on these bases.  There is good hosting for civcrm and I think it could be a great fit.  I think Carl over at transition US might be interested in these efforts as well.

2) folks at riseup.net and others have developed a social networking platform ( open source) called crabgrass.  It is aimed at small groups, has a lot of scalability,  groups, sub groups etc and at the higher level, networks of groups.  The model is very much like what transition needs I think.  There are some questions about its robustness but its worth a look.

Again thanks for the efforts I.  I look forward to collaborating on finding the right platform to support transition across the planet!
Bill Aal, Transition Seattle and US TransitionTtrainers Working Group. ( email contact waal@toolsforchange.org)

PS.  A few words on Wiser Earth and why I don;t think it is a good main platform for Transition).
Wiser Earth is an amazing project, but I think it is not the best place for transition to hang its hat.  I would use it like facebook, etc, as an amplification of efforts, not the main tool:

1) there is no real way to have transition show up in search engines within wiser.

2) while there are some features that support group functioning, it is really meant as a database of groups.  You can use it effectively to broadcast events, tell your story, but not really build a network of supporters that have an identity with your group. At least the last time I tried using it to organize, there wasn't enough there to support the effort.  ( its been a year, so maybe there are new tools available)

2) while there are groups it is harder to have groups of groups with shared identity but different working spaces.  There is no calendar function at the group level for example.

3) I would challenge the idea that Wiser is an open source platform:
      a) There is no open source community pushing the development of the code.  They released a version of the code with some $$ from the biomicary foundation a few years ago, but have not been able to find developers to come in and support the project.  The few projects that tried to use the code have not been able to get very far. ( see http://sourceforge.net/projects/wiserplatform/ )

    b) while the web site is under a creative commons license, there are no interfaces to bring the data in and out of the database.  This effectively makes for a closed system, that the available data in aggregate is only available to Natural Capital...

Ed Mitchell's picture

Thanks

Thanks anonymous,

interesting points on WE - we weren't proposing to move the core functions of initiatives, projects, people to WE - we were suggesting that it is our preferred free social networking platform for initiatives looking for those patterns - the core data remains here on this site. Here's the positioning statement on how we fit with social networks.

Would love to use civiCRM - it's on the discussion list for the transition technologists...

Also - we are aiming to work with WE (and Freebase) to open up data sharing between our directories and theirs. I'm not sure what this means right now to be honest, but it's a long held ambition of the site to share the up to date and accurate information on Transition projects and initaitives with the networks and hubs.

 

Charley Quinton's picture

Other platforms and workspaces

I too am on WiserEarth and find it an excellent community on a fairly good platform. As James pointed out, searching and building content is fairly strait-forward and the people are super.  Individuals can form resilient relationships across and through the various groups, resource pages, events, solutions, jobs, articles (wikipages) and other modules. So the API is not perfect, but it has served to help build one of the most resilient communities on the planet.

From Wikipedia:

The site maps and connects non-governmental organizations (NGOs), businesses, governments, groups and individuals addressing issues such as climate change, poverty, the environment, peace, water, hunger, social justice, conservation, human rights and more. WISER is an acronym for World Index of Social and Environmental Responsibility. WiserEarth is a fiscally sponsored project of the Natural Capital Institute

I've talked with platform developers who were looking into ways of getting in and out of the WE database and all agree that it is plausible. Speaking of Wikipedia, its platform, MediaWiki is yet another open source free software platform that can be installed and linked into a site you host yourself. A cool feature is that a process called interwiki linking is implemented to easily link and reference other mediawiki sites, including Wikipedia.

If you don't host, and don't mind a few ads, you can build your own workspace on Wikia which is fiscally supported by ads. See the Wikia Travel and notice how your "place" can fit into an existing global database. Appropedia is another fine MediaWiki installation especially for appropriate technology projects. MediaWiki is extremely customizable even if you don't host your own installation. Tons of these types of sites can be used by transition initiatives to build content and link up things by context.

Whether a group "exists" as a google group, here on Transition Network, on its own self-hosted platform or simply from a WikiProject on Wikipedia, it is the relationships that matter. Resilience thinking allows your group to feel at home regardless of "where" in cyberspace it "resides" in whatever form. Ning.com is certainly not the only game in town!

That's my $0.02usd worth.

Charley

Ed Mitchell's picture

Update from Ning

I can't work out what Ning will do to those who don't pay (I've got a few Ning groups which I look forward to seeing what happens), but here's their offer and so forth:

http://blog.ning.com/2010/07/the-new-plans-features-and-improvements-of-...

Ed Mitchell's picture

Comment on Wiser Earth from James Greyson

(ED: James had a bit of a dust up with the spam filter, which didn't allow him to post this, so Ed is posting it on his behalf)

I run a largish group on wiserearth called Fixing Systems Not Symptoms that looks at how to do planet-scale paradigm shifting - so a neat fit with the transition movement. I've used wiserearth actively for about a year and have been impressed with the platform, the organisers (Bowo and all the team) and especially the collaborative troll-free spam-free ad-free quality of the discussions. I'm now one of the community 'editors' (we're volunteer helpers not volunteer managers).

Yes, the tools are occasionally a bit fiddly but you get the hang of it soon enough and the quirks are being slowly ironed out (hopefully faster in future). Have noticed similar quirks here ;-) I'm not techie but can offer feedback about the anonymous concerns:

  • A regular search works fine for listing and finding all groups with 'transition' in their name. There are also a bunch of other search options besides groups.
  • The 'related groups' module is handy for groups of groups (see it in use with Transition US). Working groups can be done the same way or just by listing them (see here for a listing example which also uses a group level calendar).
  • I don't think wiserearth was ever meant just as a database of groups. It's meant as a database of the entire sustainability+social progressive movement as well as the networking and discussion spaces to help it see itself and get on with things.
  • There are plenty of features for groups and it seems to work very well to build a network around shared interests and activities. There is not yet a listserve for group members to email each other but for me that's a blessing since it focusses attention into the content of pages.
  • The open source community is Wiserearth API Developers Group with 75 members. I don't know what's happening with APIs but they will.
  • Aren't APIs an interface to move data? There is also iframes which lists examples using wiserearth data externally.

Hope this helps.

Anonymous's picture

Go lower tech

I wrote a post over at Transition US about "Diversity and Internet connections", about how a T.I.'s choice to move to high tech excludes many people.

Ning is problematic, because all its nifty accessible plugins encourage ning site owners (T.I.'s) to use video, flash, high numbers of images, etc.  All of these features demand a certain caliber of machine in the user's hands.  And the standard is constantly and competitively being "upped" by manufacturers and promoters, such that site owners feel driven to compete by upgrading their site to gain the latest bells and whistles.  Which again ups the technology threshhold for site users to access same ...

And frankly, it is a VERY SMALL ELITE PERCENTAGE of our population -- upper middle class, white -- who have ability to sustain these competitive computer hardware upgrades.

In my outreach I encounter many people who have low powered computers.  Their machines have difficulty downloading a pdf -- something many of the upper crust of computer users take completely for granted.  And these people with low powered computers are among the lucky ones.  As I begin outreach into lower income areas of our city I realize how few people even have access to any computer, let alone a fancy one.

You will reap what you sow.  If you market your T.I. website only to the high end of high tech, your T.I. will be only upper middle class people.  And then your T.I. will need a "diversity" committee to ponder what went wrong and why Transition ideas aren't reaching all the demographics of your city.

So ... design your T.I. site with simpler technology.  As you migrate off ning, park the videos and the gorgeous images on a back page.  Create a site that is accessible to many, not just attractive to the few.

Ed Mitchell's picture

Thanks

Thanks anon,

I hope you feel that this site, which is specifically simple and free of flashing whirring things is simple enough :)

Nick G's picture

Project Dirt

An interesting article Ed - thanks for summarising the issues and pros/cons of various platforms very succinctly.

And thanks too for mentioning Project Dirt as one of the 'hosted' alternatives. From what started out as a test back in 2008, we have now grown to be a 3,000 strong (largely London-based) community network with - at the last count - 14 Transition initiatives either with a basic presence or using Project Dirt as their main website.

We're developing our ideas on how to move to an Open Source platform, probably based on Drupal; allowing the groups within our network greater functionality on their project/group pages at the same time.

I'd be happy to discuss our plans with you Ed whenever you like, just drop me a line.

Meanwhile, it might be worth stating for the record (picking up on a point you raise above) that we are established as a company. That way we hope to keep ourselves sustainable, and not reliant long-term on public funds or grant funding. We intend to (eventually) sell networking services to local authorities and to businesses, but the core functions for community members, and for the groups they are in (including group websites, forums, event calendars, etc. etc.), will continue to be free!